Are people, still in a blind eye of what the word of God says? Do we fight the truth and try to make a theological jump rope, to get around the things we find in the bibie that seems to go agesnt what we have been tought? Yes many will do this, why will they because they go with that the guy behind the stand says, and they lack the know how on how to deccern the bible and what it is to exaguest and to use a bible hurmanedcis. I want to give you a expale of this from a bother in Christ, Chris Van Beekum. We has done a lot of work for the doctrines of grace on facebook this is a run in that he had and unlike others he used the bible to back him and he walked the people in the posting though all the words and means, he is a bother who I have seen from one that would need my help to defend the doctrine that we hold to, to one that no longer needs help but in fact has at times stoked me from his defense in this doctrine of God.
“Jonathan's Profile • Jonathan's Wall
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Jonathan Whitehead
What do the Calvinist and Homosexual have in common?
Tuesday at 8:08pm • Like • Comment
Ewell D Pritchett likes this.
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Jonathan Whitehead They both believe that they were born that way.Tuesday at 8:08pm • Like • tddUIK01p63.png ¬ 1 person
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Brittany Martinez Dude, r we in elementry school?Tuesday at 8:29pm • Like
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Chris Van Beekum I was nit born a Calvinist. I was born saved.Tuesday at 8:43pm • Like
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Laura Whitehead bahaha! sometimes it feels like we're in grade school still......Tuesday at 8:50pm • Like
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Jonathan Whitehead haha, I still laugh at my joke and Chris' response magnifies the comedy.Yesterday at 7:09am • Like
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Laura Whitehead oh, he was serious?Yesterday at 7:14am • Like
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Chris Van Beekum when you say enough stupid things , then its impossible to discern when your trying to be funny.Yesterday at 8:01am • Like
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Jonathan Whitehead I wouldn't think that it was funny either if I were a Calvinist.Yesterday at 9:13am • Like
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Laura Whitehead That's still making me laugh. I didn't mean to hurt your feelings, I didn't know anyone would say something like that and be serious about it.Yesterday at 10:45am • Like
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Vance Marquis Ephesians 1:4
4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love
Ephesians 1:11
11 In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will,
Case closed. John Calvin got it right on election.Yesterday at 10:45am • Like
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Charles Wilkes Oh Vance, you error not knowing the scripture!!
The predestination of the elect is not in reference to specific individuals, but rather the obedient! Those that chose to follow Christ.
Hebrews 5:9
and having been made perfect, he became unto all them that obey him the author of eternal salvation;
John 3:16
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth on him should not perish, but have eternal life.
1 Timothy 2:4
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
1 Timothy 4:10
For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
2 Corinthians 5:14
For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:
John Calvin = FAILYesterday at 1:03pm • Like • 1__#$!@%!#__tddUIK01p63.png ¬ 2 people
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Chris Van Beekum charles .
again with this ?
first lets start with hebrews 5:9
because f the perfect righteousness of jesus christ and his perfect sacrifice for sin, he became the cause of salvation. true salvation evidences itself in obediance to christ , from the initial obedience to the gospel command to repent and believe to a life pattern of obedience to the word.
so in short , those who obey the elect , because not just anyone can choose to follow and obey God .
john 3:16 ( the arminians fav verse )
means that whoever believes in christ, will be saved. thats all fine and dandy but lets take an exegetical look at this .
first of all God is the one who grants belief ( phil 1:29 )
God is the one who enables the person to come to jesus ( john 6:65)
God is the one who gives us faith ( eph 2:8)
so anyone who does believe has been pre ordained by God to come to that point in their life.
also f you read vs 18, it says that those who dont believe are already condemed . ( non elect ) simple undeniable proof .
1st timothy 2:4
first of all the kjv is not a great translation for this verse , since it reads
"Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth."
who Will have ? that would mean that their is no reason for hell then .
the correct translation of this is who "will's" or "desires" for all men to be saved.
2:4
the word for "desires" is not that which normally expresses Gods will of decree (His eternal purpose), But Gods will of desire. there is a distinction between Gods desires and his eternal saving purpose, which must transcend his desires . god does not want men to sin. he hates sin with all his being (pss 5,45) , thus, he hates its consequences -- eternal wickedness in hell. God does not want people to remain wicked forever in eternal remorse and hatred for Himself. yet, God for his own glory , and to manifest that glory in wrath, chose to endure "vessels ... prepared for destruction " for the supreme fulfillment of his will ( romans 9:22 ). in his eternal purpose, he chose only the elect out of the world ( john 17:6-9 ) and asses over the rest, leaving them to the consequences of their sin, unbelief and rejection of christ ( romans 1:18-32 ) .
ultimately , gods choices are determined by His sovereign, eternal purpose , Not his desires .
~mcarther study bible notes
i think 4:10 is partly covered with the above response . but if you want i can write out my notes on that verse too .
in 2nd corinthians 5:14
the all are refereing to the christians ( elect )
only those who are in christ died. one died for all , therefor all died . have people who gone to hell died in christ ? the death in question is of our sin , we are dead to our sin and alive in christ. so are all the people in hell alive in christ ?22 hours ago • Like
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Chris Van Beekum charles = FAIL
Jesus Christ = WIN22 hours ago • Like
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Chris Van Beekum oh and justification is a personal selection by God.
matthew 7, john 10, romans 8, john 17, john 6, ect .
lets just say the entirety of scripture . :)22 hours ago • Like
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Charles Wilkes Chris, you stepped into it with 1 Timothy 2:4!!
Why would God have a will that all men be saved when He did'nt make it availible, or in other words, made it impossible, for all men to be saved through a predetermined election?
Calvin will always fail due to his theology making God contradict Himself!
Chris, don't love John Calvin (a hell bound soul) above the author and finisher of the saving faith of those that OBEY (the elect)!
John 3:36
He that believeth on the Son hath eternal life; but he that obeyeth not the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abideth on him.21 hours ago • Like
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Charles Wilkes Chris, at what point after being born saved did you become the enemy of Christ? I'll tell you.....When you chose to sin.
Now, do your best with trying to twist Romans 5:18.....
18 So then as through one trespass the judgment came unto all men to condemnation; even so through one act of righteousness the free gift came unto all men to justification of life.
This resonates 2 Corinthians 5:14
For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:
The death here is not a death to sin, but because of sin. Why would Christ have to die at all if all WERE (past tense) dead. There is no mention of the elect until verse 15 when the scripture reads "those that live".
We can see that much of this type of language was used to show that the Jews were sinners and worthy of hell fire just as much as the Gentiles. For instance in Romans 3.....
22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ unto all them that believe; for there is no distinction;
23 for all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God;
24 being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
29 Or is God the God of Jews only? is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yea, of Gentiles also:
30 if so be that God is one, and he shall justify the circumcision by faith, and the uncircumcision through faith.20 hours ago • Like
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Charles Wilkes Who does God personally select???
Mark 16
16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
John3
36 He that believeth on the Son hath eternal life; but he that obeyeth not the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abideth on him.
Acts 2
41Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
47Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.
Romans 1
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.20 hours ago • Like
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Jonathan Whitehead @ Vance - The elect are God's chosen people. The elect have not always been elect:
I Peter 2:9: But ye are a CHOSEN generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
I Peter 2:10: Which in time past were NOT a people, but are NOW the people of God: which had NOT obtained mercy, but NOW have obtained mercy.
No one's born elect. And individual becomes one of the elect when he obeys the gospel. The church are those who have been called out and have become the people of God. They are the ones who have obtained mercy. When one gets baptized, they're added to the elect and have become a "Member" of the "Church" or called out.
Romans 8:28-30 Those whom God predestined to be conformed to the image of his son (The elect) are those who "Love God." Since no one has loved God from birth, then no one has been elect from birth.
All spiritual blessings are in Christ Jesus (Ephesians 1:3) and election is a spiritual blessing and there's only one way into Christ Jesus (Matthew 28:18, Gal 3:26,27, Rom 6:3). Thus no one can be elect from birth.18 hours ago • Like
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Chris Van Beekum so i guess you read nothing i wrote, and i know you feel cornered , because your lashing out with multiple posts trying to gain an edge . but it does not work .
now asking me why God would do somthing is a false question.
"why" is the outcome of the more accurate question "what is the reason? " why=reason. i cannot begin to know "why" God does things . but scripture as plain as day tells us that he desires for everyone to be saved, but thats not what he does. think of it this way. God is a judge, but because he is also perfectly loving he does not "desire" to send people to hell . but because he is a judge, he has to.
when have i ever brought up calvin in any of my debates? . you seem to like to bash on him . have i ever used his quotes? nope. my theology just happens to be his too . your attacks on john calvin mean nothing to me.
john 3:36 is almost a mirror of vs 18. those who believe , believe because they are enabled to.
now my saying born saved was a poor choice of words. i was born justified , meaning that it was in Gods plan for him to break me and bring me to repentance. i was chosen before i was created, meaning i was chosen "unconditionally" . and i was born in sin and still sin to this day , just as you do. i praise God that its not my works that save me .
again with romans 5:18 ,
the kjv fails here again . "the free gift came" is not in any manuscripts before or after the 1600s . its simply added in.
again , the all being refered here are the elect.
since justification cannot mean every single person . becaus people do go to hell . justification means saved . not savable .
God selects us before hand :eph 1
he knows exactly who he choses
matthew 7, john 10, romans 8
if you had a heard of sheep , and knew them by name , when someone says ( hows the heard ? ) do you go " oh jerry is ok , mark is ok jenny is fine , timmy is good " or would you say something like ( they are all good ) . notice how all can mean a select group and not every sheep in the world . in romans 5:12-18 all is used in both senses . one , death has spread to all men ( every person in the world ) through once sacrifice all are made alive . . elect. cant mean every person since there are people in hell .
and john . romans 8 disproves your pathetic idea .
also plenty of people are elect from birth . romans 9:11
of course the elect are too , romans 8 .
eph 1:4 .
and psalms 22:9-10 .
sooo . your wrong . again .17 hours ago • Like
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Charles Wilkes It's time to knock the leg out from chris's one legged chair!
This is how I KNOW you are a scripture twister........you say that there are people in hell, but There is no one in hell at this moment for the judgement is still yet to come!!
Hades, yes!14 hours ago • Like
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Charles Wilkes Another reason I think you are just tripping all over the place with YOUR ideas is that you said you chose your words poorly by saying you were born saved!
You changed it up by saying you were born justified, implying there is a difference b...See More
14 hours ago • Like
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Chris Van Beekum its possible . but you know what i ment .
i like how you evaded the entire post though :)14 hours ago • Like
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Charles Wilkes Not to mention, if you were born justified or saved, Christ did not die for you! If you do believe in the perseverance of the saints, then you do not need a savior! Otherwise, you must believe one can fall from grace and require the blood of Christ for redemption!!14 hours ago • Like
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Charles Wilkes Chris, you can say 2+2=4 is wrong until you die, but that doesn't MAKE it wrong!!14 hours ago • Like
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Chris Van Beekum again . nice try at evading my post . i have already shown you how people are born beliving in God from scripture . so i think its time you repent14 hours ago • Like
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Charles Wilkes Chris, how do you KNOW you are one of Gods elect? Did you get a peek at the list? Maybe you received a revalation?13 hours ago • Like
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Chris Van Beekum because i do accept God . thats how i know im one of the elect .13 hours ago • Like
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Chris Van Beekum and i dont say 2 +2 anything . i say (Gods will > mans will)
i like how you dont have any scripture to back up your view13 hours ago • Like
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Charles Wilkes Chris, the burden is on you! You have done nothing but discredit and twist the scriptures that I posted!
Not one scripture you have posted supports your (Calvins) doctrine!!
In case you didn't know, faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God!! Babies CANNOT have faith, nor can they sin!
Furthermore, you have set God against Himself by stating there is a group of people destined for hell from birth, yet it's His will that ALL might be saved!
You've called God a liar in saying Christ DID NOT die for the sins of THE WORLD!
And you've RIPPED the power from the Gospel by saying there's a people that it's power CANNOT save, even if they obeyed it!!13 hours ago • Like
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Charles Wilkes Tell me you take on 1 Peter 3:21 if you would.13 hours ago • Like
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Charles Wilkes How does one ACCEPT God?13 hours ago • Like
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Chris Van Beekum he accepts by god enabling him to accept .
and why is every post you make , empty and void of scripture ?
your words dont line up with scripture at all .
and also why do you keep jumping from topic to topic?
..... running out of bullets? well that does not matter since you have no gun.
the fact is that every post of mine supports my doctrine .
faith comes by hearing. i know . but it is given by God . in case you didint know .
1st peter 3:21
peter is teaching that the fact that 8 people were in an ark and went through the whole judgment , and yet were unharmed , is analogous to the christians experience in salvation by being in christ, the ark of ones salvation.
peter is not at all refering to water baptism here, but rather a figurative imersion into union with christ as an ark of safety from the judgment of God. the ressurection of christ demonstrates Gods acceptance of christs substitutionary death for the sins of those who believe ( acts 2:30-31 romans 1:4)
judgment fell on christ just as the judgment of the flood waters fell on the ark , the beliver who is in christ is thus in the ark of safety and will sail over the waters of judgment into eternal glory ( romans 6:1-4)
Not the removal os dirt from the flesh_
to be sure he is not misunderstood , peter clearly says he is not speaking of water baptism , in noahs flood , they were kept out of the water while those who went into the water were destroyed. being in the ark and thus saved from Gods judgment on the world prefigures being in christ and thus saved from eternal damnation .
~Mcar12 hours ago • Like
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Charles Wilkes And how does God enable man? I'll go ahead and show you.....
It's through His word that we are to preach and persuade men.
Romans 1:16
For I am not ashamed of the gospel: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Romans 10:17
So belief cometh of hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.
2 Timothy 3:15-17
15 And that from a babe thou hast known the sacred writings which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16 Every scripture inspired of God is also profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for instruction which is in righteousness.
Acts 17:4
And some of them were persuaded, and consorted with Paul and Silas, and of the devout Greeks a great multitude, and of the chief women not a few.
Acts 18:4
And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded Jews and Greeks.
Acts 18:13
saying, This man persuadeth men to worship God contrary to the law.
Acts 19:26
And ye see and hear, that not alone at Ephesus, but almost throughout all Asia, this Paul hath persuaded and turned away much people, saying that they are no gods, that are made with hands:
In John 1, if God is the word and the word God, to read and place the word in your heart is to be spirit filled.
Once a person hears and is persuaded, they must ACT.......
James 2
17 Even so faith, if it have not works, is dead in itself.
19 Thou believest that God is one; thou doest well: the demons also believe, and shudder.
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith apart from works is barren?
22 Thou seest that faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect;
24 Ye see that by works a man is justified, and not only by faith.
26 For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, even so faith apart from works is dead.
The gospel is something that can be obeyed or obeyed not!
2 Thessalonians 1:8
rendering vengeance to them that know not God, and to them that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus:
1 Peter 4:17
For the time is come for judgment to begin at the house of God: and if it begin first at us, what shall be the end of them that obey not the gospel of God?4 hours ago • Like • 2__#$!@%!#__tddUIK01p63.png ¬ 1 person
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Jonathan Whitehead Chris = Total Failure.
Chris said that he knows that he's one of the elect... The only way that Chris can know that he's one of the elect (According to his theology) is to look into the future and see that he will be faithful the day that he dies. If at any point in the future, Chris sins and forsakes the name of Christ, then that means he was never saved to begin with. Since he does not know what the future holds, he'll never be able to know if he's one of the elect.
Chris said that people are born BELIEVING from birth. Utter stupidity with absolutely no verses.
No one's born justified:
I Corinthians 6:9: Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? ...
I Corinthians 6:11: And such WERE some of you: BUT ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are JUSTIFIED in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
Justifications spoken of in Future tense:
Romans 2:13 For it isn't the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law will be justified
Justified through faith: (We're not born having faith.)
Romans 3:28: Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Romans 5:1: Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
We're justified after working:
James 2:24 You see then that by works, a man is justified, and not by faith alone.4 hours ago • Like • 3__#$!@%!#__tddUIK01p63.png ¬ 1 person
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Charles Wilkes As for 1 Peter 3:21, I just wanted to let everyone see how bad you are butchering Gods word with your scripture twisting. I'll post the scripture for examination starting at verse 20.....
20 that aforetime were disobedient, when the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water:
21 which also after a true likeness doth now save you, even baptism, not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the interrogation of a good conscience toward God, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ;
The scripture is focusing in on "water" at the end of verse 20, not the ark. How do I KNOW that the baptism in verse 21 is not figurative? Well, the comparison that began in verse 20 is definately refering to a literal water, not to mention PHILIPs preaching "Jesus" included the teaching of the necessity of water baptism....
Acts 8
35 And Philip opened his mouth, and beginning from this Scripture, preached unto him Jesus.
36 And as they went on the way, they came unto a certain water; and the eunuch saith, Behold, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
If you say that WATER was not the medium by which baptism is administered, then you are saying that you have better knowledge of Gods word than Philip who was Holy Spirit inspired!!!
Further more, 1 Peter 3:21 is corresponding to Matthew 15 in that its not the cleansing of the outside of the physical body, but obedience to the commands of God that purifies and washes away sins......
2Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread.
11Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.
It's not the water at work in the act of baptism, but OBEDIENCE to the command to be baptized by faith that is requesting or asking God for a clear conscience
You may ask, was it the ark or the water that saved Noah? Well, the water saved Noah from the wickedness upon the earth by "washing it away"!!! Just the same, baptism washes away our wickedness. Isn't Gods word wonderful?
There is NO WAY that the ARK is being compared to Christ in this passage because Noah had to be IN the ark BEFORE the flood. Man is does not get INTO CHRIST until he is baptized.......
Galatians 3:27
27For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Acts 2
41Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
47Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.
Romans 6
3Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:4 hours ago • Like
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Charles Wilkes Chris, you stated......"and why is every post you make , empty and void of scripture ?
your words dont line up with scripture at all ."
EVERY POST???
World English Dictionary
every (ˈɛvrɪ)
— determiner
1. each one (of the class specified), without exception:
You are a LIAR and the truth is not in you.3 hours ago • Like
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Charles Wilkes My final contribution for you Chris.....
2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
Hebrews 4:7
Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.3 hours ago • Like
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Chris Van Beekum i dont even have time to respond to that much heresy . im talking to a wall , the truth is far from you and you are lost if you bleieve you have to do anything.
and james does not mean faith without working is no faith . he means that since faith brings good works , if there are no good works . then the faith is not there.
faith = good works . NOT good works = faith .
you are both lost and need to go to a real church .9 minutes ago • Like”
now let’s look at this, did he in fact back the doctrine or do more harm than help to it, I would but to you that he in fact backed it!
May God bless the ones that are here to back the doctrine that we hold dear and true to are hearts.
Soli deo Gloria.
